Posts by Sea Breeze

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Sea Breeze

And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” - Jesus

VH7 - Both are literal

Glad we cleared that up. Another scripture identifies the nature of the eternal punishment that Jesus repeated warned us about.

Jude 7

Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

That should be the end of discussion for those who do not read into scripture foreign meanings unknown to the apostles and their students.

Once a bible reader goes rogue (symbolic) you can make the scriptures say anything you want. For a powerful demonstration of this truth: JW's have been duped (through the raw power of symbolic interpretation) to do the opposite of what Jesus commanded regarding acceptance of the new covenant "for the forgiveness of sins" in Mt. 26: 27-28

They willingly reject the offer of forgiveness of sins from the Lord and are quite proud of it, even ranting on and on about what a sincere heart they have and how deceived everyone else is because of their pride. That fact is just beyond incredible and sends a chill down my spine everytime I think about it.

There is no possibility of winning a logical argument when the common meanings, definitioins, and plain reading of scripture are all scrambled together and laid out as in a buffet for a pick and choose smorgasborg.

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Sea Breeze

@VH7

And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” - Jesus

Jesus said that hell is just as eternal as heaven is. Are you going to try and claim one part of the sentence is literal and another part of the same sentence is symbolic?

10

Finding Neverland

by Freeorange in

add bookmark.

#1. i have to start off this post by saying i am not intending to insult or offend.

these are just our observations over our entire lives in the org.

Sea Breeze

we sat on her Zoom funeral watching the video of her life nonstop in the ministry while her old husband sobbed and the song “Just around the corner“ played over and over again like a cruel, final joke.

As sad as that is, the reality is, that's as good as it gets. "it is appointed unto man once to die and then judgment" - Hebrews 9: 27

She will be required to explain why she lived a life of rebellion against Jesus when he commanded all to partake of the New Covenant "for the forgiveness of sins" - Mt. 26: 27-28

For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. - Jesus

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Sea Breeze

A sinner in hell does not have zōḗ aiṓnios, only an endless bíos. This distinction is forgotten by the JWs when they argue from the biblical statement that "eternal life," or zōḗ aiṓnios, is the privilege of the saved, then how "the wicked" can exist forever. However, this contrived opposition lacks the requirement of scholarly exegesis and is obviously an eisegesis born out of a compulsion to conform to the annihilationism adopted from Adventists.
The opposite of "eternal life," zōḗ aiṓnios, is not "eternal non-existence" in the sense of annihilation, but "eternal death," where "death" does not mean annihilation but separation from God. Thus, damnation is eternal 'bíos', mere existence without true "life" (zōḗ), i.e., without a relationship with God.

Like a small child that has abused its mother who loves it the most, we have all gone astray and haven't regarded the enormity of God and his creation as something and someone to be cherished and something to be grateful for.

Since our sin is against the eternal goodness of God, our punishment is eternal. Every day for eternity the lost or perished soul will experience existence without any trace of the goodness of God.

This is what Jesus warned people about over and over.

how can ye escape the damnation of hell? - Jesus

It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire. - Jesus

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Sea Breeze

Where do you find eternal souls in the Bible?

do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul - Jesus

It does say later that the soul and body can be "destroyed" in Hell, but that greek word also means to lose or perish, but not non existence.

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Sea Breeze

@VH7

Personally, I wish it was as you say is possible. But, I could never preach on that wishful thinking because it is simply not supported in scripture.

If it was just one story, maybe there might be an argument. But when you look at the overwhelming quantity of verses describing conscious punishment to different groups of the wicked in the OT and especially the NT, it is simply not possible to conclude it is anything other than what a plain reading would produce in the mninds of an average reader.

And, getting back to the topic: When you read what the first and second generation believers who were trained by the apostles wrote, then the likelihood of mine and yours wishful thinking being true drops to ZERO.

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Sea Breeze

Firstly, eternal torment of eternal human souls is not found in the New Testament.

@VH7

Jude 7 KJV

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

From the first page of the Bible until the last, Scripture consistently teaches that humans have an immaterial part that will last forever. It is not possible for the soul, or spirit, to be annihilated. So, the only real question is where does the conscious part of us go when we die? That's really all that matters at the end of the day.... or our end of days. The answer is either family-style fellowship with God or the place prepared for the devil and his angels. Those are the only two choices we have. And thanks to God manifest as Jesus of Nazereth, we DO now have a choice.

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels - Mt. 25: 41

It is not wise to minimize, discount or ignore the wanrings of a man who said that he would resurrect himself from the dead, and then did it.

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Sea Breeze

@ Boogerman - So you're saying that if I willfully sin for 840 months, (70 years) the God which you worship is going to punish me terribly - for all of eternity????????

I'm not saying that. A man who raised himself from the dead said that. Why would he lie?

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Sea Breeze

@VH

The devil is only sparsely mentioned in the OT but Jesus talked a lot about him. IT IS NOT SURPRISING THAT JESUS WOULD EXPAND UPON THE NATURE OF HELL AS WELL in the NT.

Christians use the NT as their primary textbook and Jesus as their primary teacher. And Jesus warned over and over about a literal, eternal hell (see Matthew 3:7, Matthew 3:12, Matthew 5:29-30, Matthew 18:9-12, Matthew 13:38-42, Matthew 13:49-50, Matthew 25:46, Mark 9:43-47, Luke 12:5, 2 Thessalonians 1:9, Jude 7, Revelation 14:11, Revelation 20:13-15, and Revelation 21:8).

What Jesus said can't be ignored and the early Christians took him at his word that he meant what he said, and said what he meant.

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Sea Breeze

@VH7

First of all as Christians, we have more than ample teaching in the New Testament to establish the doctrine of a literal, eternal hell (see Matthew 3:7, Matthew 3:12, Matthew 5:29-30, Matthew 18:9-12, Matthew 13:38-42, Matthew 13:49-50, Matthew 25:46, Mark 9:43-47, Luke 12:5, 2 Thessalonians 1:9, Jude 7, Revelation 14:11, Revelation 20:13-15, and Revelation 21:8).

This New Testament teaching is quite consistent, though, with the Old Testament. First, the OT contains many references to God’s wrath. He is often said to be angry at wickedness (see, for example, Deuteronomy 32:22, Psalm 2:12, and Psalm 18:7). Psalm 7:11 is one of many verses that indicate this indignation or anger is directed toward those who perpetrate this wickedness (“the wicked”).

The OT prophets repeatedly speak of a time when the Holy One would have His “day” — a day of justice in which He would express His anger toward sin and visit judgment on sinners. They referred to this as “The Day of the Lord.” (Isaiah 2:12; 13:6, 9; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31; 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 1:15; Zephaniah 1:7,14; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi. 4:5).

Daniel also speaks of eternal punishment:

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. - Daniel 12: 2

“There is no peace,” says the LORD, “for the wicked.” - Is. 48: 22